attackfish | Meme, because I didn't have a drunk Purim experience

If you felt so inspired, the Ladies of White Collar being awesome is always in style.

Yeah, I know. I sort of fell out of the WC fandom *sigh*.

Well, I was going through your fic memes yesterday, and the one fic idea that really snagged me was the "Banished Princess, Sun-Touched Prince" one from your birthday meme.

Actually, I plan to turn that into a meme after Kindle the Wind wraps up, so just hold on, we'll get there!

That's good to know.

Did you write any of that? Becuz I can't remember...

Of course I find it AFTER I ask... Sorry! ^^'

lol

Hmm...

Well, I think you do a mean Katara/Sokka, and I'd really like to see more of that. Maybe some sort of AU dealie that gives their major character points -- sibling relationship, shared trauma, reverence for their decimated culture, family -- a chance to play out in a new way. Like, what if Avatar Katara and Sokka were frozen in that iceberg, and Aang was the one who found them? And the Water Tribe were genocided a century ago, while the Air Nomads are still kicking.

I love writing Katara and Sokka. It seems like most people forget that they're siblings who probably have all kinds of crazy hijinks under their belt before the show starts. Somewhere around here, I have a drabble with Avatar Katara learning earthbending from Toph that I've toyed with expanding before. Also, I love writing Sokka and Katara in Kindle the Wind with the two of them on Zuko's ship and Iroh being all "Zuko! Look! This is what normal teenagers do, hint hint."

Oh man, it's like asking me what chocolate I want in a Hershey's store. Hmm, okay *evil grin* femZuko, waterbender Zuko and Avatar Zuko :-)

You know I've written all of those right?

Oh, you want more of that. I get it.

Heh, yep yep! Out all the ALAB authors that I've read, you're one of my favorites. I love everything you write. And I think I've reread your stories at least once. Your Ice Flows is my second favorite in this fandom. The first being Embers :-).

Of course I want more! Who wouldn't! Your stories are interesting, character driven and draw me in seamlessly and your ideas are unique and I love what you manage to do with my Zuko :-).

*blush* thank you! Really, that's incredibly flattering. Um. Thank you!

Heh, no problem. You are very talented!

I didn't know you had written fem Zuko. Link?

These three commentfics are AUs of Weirdlet's Sun Child in which Zhao forces Zura into marriage. Warning for forced marriage and non-graphic flashbacks to rape. Also childbirth.

http://attackfish.livejournal.com/53604.html?thread=250724#t250724
http://attackfish.livejournal.com/53604.html?thread=290148#t290148
http://attackfish.livejournal.com/65620.html?thread=697428#t697428

Also, Xenolith is about trans* man Zuko, so not fem!Zuko, be female-bodied Zuko. So when I reveal it...

Wow, that is... um... terrible. Not your writing, of course, but the subject.

Yeah, I was not kidding about the warnings. The original verse by weirdlet isn't much better. It's heavily implied that Zura's first child is by her brother, who drugged and raped her. When she's thirteen and her brother is eleven.

Be wary of Xenolith. Rape features pretty prominently in that too. I don;t even know about myself sometimes, okay?

Toph/Sokka, with Toph successfully fending off strangers who think she's less qualified to be a parent because she's blind. (When, actually, she's less qualified to be a parent because she has no idea of what interdependence is, no patience for slow learners and no functional model of what parenting looks like. Even so, being Toph, she would do fine.) Dealing with in-laws and culture clash, and Sokka being awkward.

Toph and Teo starting a disability rights movement, Zuko being a confused would-be ally, erasure of cognitive disability, paying it forward, Aang taking a little convincing before becoming the ideal ally and maybe intersectionality and the same cultural arguments Pakku makes for sexism.

More AUs, more of Toph and Azula, a Zuko<>Toph swap. Quiet Shadowed Places: The Crossroads of Destiny. Holding This Breath: something going right for someone at some point, or the aftermath of the war, or Aang needing to learn firebending.

Zuko<>Yue characterswap.

More of the world where Toph finds Aang (http://attackfish.livejournal.com/65620.html?thread=653908#t653908)-- where do they look for a waterbending teacher, among other questions?

More of the Lightning Strike verse (http://attackfish.livejournal.com/53604.html?thread=250212#t250212)-- seeing old friends, and being bored by disability, and the things Zuko does to accommodate his new needs.

So, when I see memes like this, can I copy them to my own journal? Is that how these things work?

Oh wow, I can't even imagine anybody actually being stupid enough to try to take Toph's kid away from her. (Okay, that's a lie, I totally can). I don't really ship Toph/Sokka, but eh.

#2 sounds hella ambitious, and like it would leave me huddled under the covers ranting to myself about how I was doing it all wrong.

I don't even know how a Zuko<>Toph switch would even work, given that one of Toph's defining characteristics is her incredible self-confidence, which I don't think would have survived a childhood wit Azula and Ozai. I do have a drabble I'm playing with for Avatar 500 about Toph and Azula, but I keep putting it off because Writing Azula is always a little intense for me.

I keep saying every time I hold a meme where it isn't expressly forbidden like Kindle the Wind or something, anybody asks for QSP: the Crossroads of Destiny, they'll get it, but nobody actually asks. Not sure why.

Holding This Breath will never be happy, Muahahahaha! Also, HTB Zuko would be a very bad choice to learn firebending from as his training stopped at thirteen, and he hasn't really practiced in years.

You know about my Banished Princess, Suntouched Prince )more formally known as Zenith and Nadir) verse? That's a Zuko<>Yue swap, and as soon as Kindle the Wind wraps up, that's the next meme.

I have no idea what happens in the world where Toph finds Aang, no idea at all.

I pick away at the lightning strike AU every time I get a prompt for it.

Yes, when you see memes like this, you can steal. I generally wait until other people have stolen it first though...

I have ideas about that one, so, if you don't write it, I might play with it for Avatar 500.

I did ask for QSP: Crossroads of Destiny, and did not get it. I believe you chose The Cooler instead. I will ask again, whenever you hold another meme.

Who besides Zuko or Iroh could teach him, then? There's only Jeong Jeong, and that worked out very badly in canon. Perhaps he could find the Sun Warriors, but wouldn't he need the basic firebending to hold the flame to impress the dragons?

Do you have a link to Zenith and Nadir?

Do you mind if I play around with that verse, then, since you have no ideas for it?

Thank you.

Oh, and on another note, I'd also like to see more of this darkfic where Aang is not rescued. (http://attackfish.livejournal.com/53604.html?thread=312164#t312164)

Go ahead and write your own idea! And while you're at it, you have my full permission to play around with the Toph-finds-Aang AU.

I didn't write CoD for that meme because I figured it would be rotten to make you wait for me to fill it. That's a several thousand word project and I don't like to do those for reward memes. In the memes I do for fun, I'm more willing to do that kind of thing.

Nothing happy or good ever happens in the Holding This Breath verse. Once you understand this, all the secrets of the world will be open to you. Aang doesn't learn firebending until after the war. He and the gaang are hanging out incognito in the conquered Earth Kingdom after Azula chased them out of the Western Air Temple, and when Ozai starts burning down the whole Earth Kingdom with the power of the comet, all four of them take him on. Aang goes into the avatar state, Ozai dies, Aang angsts, somehow they all deal with Azula, and then later, Aang and puppet Firelord Zuko bond over their shared lessons with their harsh and very reluctant firebending teacher. In an effort to connect with his uncle's memory, Zuko takes Aang on an adventure to the "ruins" of the Sun Warriors, and they dance with the dragons. Aang and the Southern Water Tribe help Zuko disentangle himself from the Northern Water Tribe, and Zuko becomes a full monarch.

The universe notes for Zenith and Nadir are here: http://attackfish.livejournal.com/65620.html?thread=735316#t735316 and the Zenith and Nadir tag with its one and only drabble is here: http://attackfish.livejournal.com/tag/zenith%20and%20nadir I'll get cracking on Z&N once I've wraped up Kindle the Wind.

I love that fic, as much for the idea of Zuko working For Toph for years as for the hell I get to put everybody else through.

I see; that makes sense, and I will ask for it again at some point.

That sounds like a lovely happy ending and I would love to see it.

Thanks for the link!

Please do.

Keep in mind, this is all after I break Zuko's heart into little tiny pieces over and over and over again, finally things level out.

You're welcome!

My happy ending prompt will involve cPTSD.

Oh yes. Mind, I'm pretty sure canon Zuko has PTSD. (Plus Mai and Ty Lee and Aang, and... That universe is a giant trauma generator.) Also, Zuko has massive problemss with Aang to start with because this is the guy who killed his father, who in this verse, Zuko hasn't gotten all the way through his head is an irredeemable monster who can't love anyone and was ruining the world for kicks. Yeah.

What prompts you to believe that they have PTSD in canon? I don't really see that. Aang does have the cliche PTSD dream, but for him it's about what happened yesterday.

Additionally, cPTSD is its own thing. Zuko had something awful happen, but it was over fast. Same with Aang. I might buy long-term trauma for Mai and Ty Lee butTL would have to care about right and wrong first.

I'm not saying Zuko has PTSD from the scaring (though he might) I'm saying he has it from being raised by Ozai and living with Azula. When he's ten, his grandfather calls for his death. This might be an unusal experience (and signs point to yes) but it still points to a tremendous amount of insecurity Zuko must have endured. His younger childhood was probably mostly okay. He has glowing memories of his mother, after all, but then he is threatened with death, his mother disappears, his domineering father becomes his sole parent, and his sister is almost certainly given free reign to do whatever she wants to her brother. We know that Azula was already very cruel to her brother, and I'm sure she moved right in on the psychological torture. Three years of that before Zuko's exile would certainly cause PTSD. He has some pretty nasty flashbacks in Zuko Alone, and his horrific temper in seasons one and two remind me of my first stalker's older brother, who, trapped in an abusive situation, channeled his trauma through his hair trigger temper.

Aang I'm less sure about, but Mai and Ty Lee both read to me as people who are dealing with long term trauma. Mai's blankness is one way to deal with someone like Azula who thrives on emotional manipulation. It was a coping mechanism that came naturally to her perhaps because of her parents, but Azula probably did a lot so cement it. In their first meeting, we see Azula threaten Mai's little brother, and other than Mai's flat affect, we have no reason to think she doesn't care. Mai shows Azula no emotion. She gives her no break in her facade. And when she does show emotion, I bet she feels weak. She gave anyone she saw the tools to hurt her. Several of my first stalker's victims exhibited this behavior. Ty Lee exhibits the same behavior I did. Like Mai, she masks her emotions, but she masks them behind a smile. She is always smiling, and when Azula asks, she always complements her to the nth degree. She easily gives Azula her unhappiness and the bounces back. If Azula enjoys her unhappiness the way my stalker did mine, giving it to her easily prevents her from doing worse, and then bouncing back to "happy" ensures she'll ignore you until she wants something from you.

I'm unsure what you meant about the last sentence. Ty Lee was threatened into going back to Azula in the first scene they're in, and specifically, Azula threatens others. She threatens the circus and circus patrons to force Ty Lee's compliance. Speaking as someone with a lot of experience with an Azula type girl, you become very quickly accustomed to doing morally questionable, hurtful things to gain the approval of your tormentor to keep yourself safe. My first stalker used her current "favorite" to help her in torturing any "friend" of hers who was on the outs. This helped her foster intense competition between her small inner circle, and also left her victims with a great deal of guilt after they broke away. While you're doing something for a girl like Azula, you might have a perfectly well developed sense of conscience, and you might even know as you're doing it that it's wrong, but it stops mattering to you, because you do it to survive. Keep in mind, we don't meet Mai and Ty Lee until after Azula has had the chance to work on them for years. To me, the fact that Ty Lee ran from her before canon began and Azula yanked her back says it all.

Huh, I seem to have misremembered Ty Lee's history. Yes, that makes sense; I can see that for Mai and Ty Lee. I still maintain that Aang only displays an acute stress response (which is basically PTSD symptoms that happen immediately and don't last long).

See, I was under the impression that the gaang hung around the North Pole for a month or so after the battle for Aang and Katara to learn more waterbending before they journeyed on to the Earth Kingdom. That's why I wasn't as sure about Aang as the other three. How far from the initial event do the symptoms have to continue for it to stop being acute?

Mai, Ty Lee, and Azula are kind of a touchy subject for me, because I see so much of my first stalker in Azula and Mai and Ty Lee act so much like my first stalker's real life victims, that when I first saw the show, I was like "They get it, they get it! Somebody finally gets it!" (Try telling somebody you're in therapy because you were stalked by a ten-year-old girl and see how well that goes over. Seriously. Well, ten to fourteen year old, she kept it up for four years.) And then there are huge swaths of fandom who want to woobify Azula, and are under the impression that if Mai and Ty Lee were just better friends to Azula, she never would have started hallucinating, and would have become magically nice, and it's like NOOOOO! Why fandom, why?

Three months to be diagnosed with PTSD, according to the DSM-IV, but, from what I've seen in real life, ASR shades into PTSD without any particular dividing line. (Then the PTSD can also be acute or chronic, but the dividing line is again arbitrary.) However, what signs of PTSD are you thinking of subsequent to the Siege of the North? I thought we were talking about Aang's nightmare and reaction to the genocide early in the first book. I saw those scenes and thought, "PTSD! Wait, no, that happened yesterday for Aang; of course he's still freaked out and hasn't dealt with it yet."

Ten-year-olds can be monsters. I was never in that dynamic, though, so I didn't recognize it in Azula and her friends. As far as Mai and Ty Lee being at fault for everything,
1. I don't think they could have caused psychosis.
2. I used to blame myself for not having made my "friend" a nicer person. I couldn't have done anything.
3. Even if they could have, why should they have been obliged to take care of Azula while she wrought havoc upon the world?

Well, a hundred years definitely counts as long term... No, actually, I wasn't even thinking about that dream. I was thinking about the one in "The Avatar State" where he dreams about destroying the Fire Nation fleet as Koizilla. Still pretty safely within the acute zone, I think, but not the day after.

Unfortunately, the whole "If you were just a better friend" thing hits a little too close to what in my darkest moments used to run through my mind. People like Azula and my first stalker convince you to blame yourself and that you're a coward for leaving, and that you're the real bad guy, and then fandom goes with that same logic, and it's like, wow, way to miss the point, folks.

I don't remember that part. Maybe I should rewatch.

If I were you-- and if I were very strong-- I would show that last part through a story about how this has affected Mai and Ty Lee. Of course, it's up to you how you use your energy and sanity.

Children’s Stories is one of the first stories I wrote in A:tLA fandom, Mai after the war thinks about Azula: http://attackfish.livejournal.com/46047.html

Ty Lee and Suki - Sake was written for lalunatique on a meme, Ty Lee in the Kyoshi Warriors hides her scars: http://attackfish.livejournal.com/113196.html?thread=1384492#t1384492

That last one... just, that last one. Wow.

(Would Suki really do that? I'm having a hard time believing the leader of the Kyoshi warriors would do that, especially after having gone off to war.)

I imagine it's not a habitual thing, more like she misjudged her alcohol tolerance at some kind of annual Kyoshi island equivalent of a Christmas party. *shrug*

That makes sense.

Looking up cPTSD on google, it looks pretty close to what I have. the trust issues, the issues I have with depression and suicidal ideation, that waiting for the other shoe to fall when someone is nice to me, my fear of becoming close to someone, the sense of hopelessness, of being trapped this way, my inability to express anger, and then when I do, it's fast, hot, and leaves me panicked afterwards, (my difficulty trusting my perfectly wonderful therapist) that, along with more typical PTSD symptoms is me, and closer to what I was getting at with Zuko, Mai, and Ty Lee. The person traumatizing you doesn't have to be a parent or caregiver. It can be a little sister or a "best friend."

Sorry you have to deal with that.

It's okay. I recently started working with a therapist who specializes in treating PTSD and childhood trauma, and I'm ten years and two thirds of a continent away from my first stalker, and my second stalker's in prison for a long, long time for reasons totally unrelated to me. So things are looking up.

I'd be interested in seeing a story about Ty Lee, Mai and Azula; maybe between The Day of Black Sun and The Boiling Rock, or how they became friends at school? I find the three to be interesting characters, but I'm wary of a lot of stories with Azula in them because of how she's treated by some of the fandom.

Of your current stuff, you probably know I have an unhealthy obsession with Hufflepuff Zuko.

*shudder* You know I was stalked for three years by a girl a lot like Azula after a year long abusive "friendship"? What you're asking for is beyond my reserves of psychological strength.

*squee* Huffulepuff Zuko is my cutest fic, bar none.

Sorry, I should have put friendship in quotations because... yeah. I think that's why I'd be curious on your interpretation, but would never want you to be forced into writing something like that (I was manipulated by far less horrible people than Azula and still refuse to touch her). I recently rewatched Return to Omashu and just wanted to get Ty Lee out of there and assure her she would be safe by the end of summer.

Yes, yes it is and I love HZ for that reason. Sometimes you just need something cute to make all the bad go away.

Every time I watch that episode, I'm like "how can people ship them? How can people think Ty Lee was a bad friend? How can people not realize what's going on here?" and like you, I want to bundle Ty Lee up and tell her she'll be safe from Azula in just a few months.

I kind of figured since you wanted me to write it, and because you mentioned your wariness of fandom!Azula, which I share, that you wanted to see a less than fluffy portrayal of Azula, and I wish more people would write Azula and Mai and Ty Lee that way. It feels like a big chunk of fandom doesn't realize just how horribly Azula treated her supposed friends, and acts like Mai and Ty Lee wronged Azula. The only problem is that the reason I write them the way I do is because of personal trauma. *sigh*

Oh, I know! HZ is my fluffy, fuzzy verse. *cuddles it*

Maybe because it was a bit comedic when Azula's running the circus and making it as horribly dangerous as possible? The way Ty Lee tries to deflect Azula when Azula first asks her to join in the beginning you could tell she was terrified, though I think a lot of people maybe listen to what they're saying more than the gestures? I don't know. I'm happy to enjoy characters while knowing full well I would run in the other direction if they approached me in real life.

Oh yes, I'd want Azula being shown as the horrible person she is through Mai or Ty Lee's perspective. I kinda wish they'd done more of that in the series, as they had time for an episode like 'The Beach,' but since Ty Lee and Mai were such minor characters I can see why it didn't happen. Don't get me wrong, I do think what happens to Azula at the end is sad and that Ozai has a lot to answer for, but I think there comes a time when the person in question has to take responsibility.

I think a lot of people have a really hard time recognizing emotional abuse for what it is, and since Azula never lays a hand on her friends until The Boiling Rock, it doesn't connect as abusive and deeply toxic for them. Also, a lot of people have a very difficult time dealing with the fact that someone can be both abusive and abused, and that they can be so without one causing the other. I'm sure Azula was abused by Ozai. He's extremely abusive. And that abuse almost certainly contributed to her mental instability that fueled her psychosis (I subscribe to the theory that she had an episode of brief reactive psychosis rather than something organic) But she's also a terrifying sociopath. Horrible people don't have some kind of horrible person courtesy where they say "oh, you're horrible too, so I won't hurt you, let's be buddies!"* Azula is both horribly treated by her father and horrible herself.

*Okay, sometimes they do, but it's not consistent, and is generally about filling a mutual need rather than evil person good manners.

More Zuko + Toph bonding. Because them interacting is always fun ;D.
The fail!incubus Zuko verse. What was Zuko's life like before Zhao captured him?
More QSP, Hufflepuff!Zuko, Kindle the Wind... I am still very curious about Xenolith ;).

Toph and Zuko are always wonderful together.

Oh man. That verse was just an excuse to make Zuko literally supernaturally prickly. I don't like to dip my toes into it.

Xenolith will come! I promise.

Meme, because I didn't have a drunk Purim experience

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