I've seen fans imply that Iroh is a misogynist because he didn't reach out to his niece like he did Zuko.
I've seen this too, more based on the way he gave her a doll (which was truly clueless, admittedly, and I see it as a sign that he hadn't seen her for a while (600 day siege, plus travel and set up = about two years) and relied on a wrong-headed "all girls like dolls, right?" mildly sexist, true, but not evidence of some kind of underlying hatred of women. As for why he didn't reach out to her, how do we know he didn't? I mean, before we came home, we heard her mocking him and calling him a failure, and how do we know he didn't try and she didn't rebuff him, right when he was at his lowest, after the death of his son? It would be much more in character for her than for her to accept any overture he made.
I've seen remarks about how Zuko was a bad brother who wasn't nice to her.
Oh yes, this must be it. We see her being frighteningly sadistic to him, he must have made her that way. *pats idiots on the head*
I've even seen a comment or two about how part of Azula's problems were that Mai and Ty Lee weren't real friends.
I saw a fandom secrets post to that effect once, and almost threw up, and I don't mean that figuratively in the least. It was just a little too close to what I said to myself in my darkest moments. My first stalker and I started out as "best friends" until I tried to assert my independence. Then she assaulted me, and instead of knuckling under like I was supposed to, I tried to get away. I was the first victim of hers to try to escape before she was done with me, which was why she became obsessed. if I had just "been a good friend" and waited it out, I told myself, she wouldn't have gone "crazy" on me. It's a lie. Azula terrorized her friends, and they had the right to leave her, and leaving someone like that, especially with the power she wields, takes tremendous courage. Maybe their leaving tipped her over the edge, but the reason for that was that she miscalculated, not that she lost people she cared about.
(I'm not sure why I'm arguing this with you, since we both agree, Maybe I'm hoping an Azula apologist with somehow miraculously make it down this far on this thread? Oh yeah, Ty Zula. I want to have somewhere to link people to next time some idiot tells me I'm a homophobe because I won't read or write Ty Zula. The fact that I'm openly bisexual doesn't deter those comments, strangely.)
What interests me about those disorders being blamed on the mother was that they caught women in a bind they promised "If you do everything right, your child won't have problems!" but since one disorder was supposedly caused by cold and distant mothers, and another by overly affectionate ones, one by being too pushy, one by being to lenient, etc. women couldn't ever just say "If I do this, we'll be fine." That was aside from the fact that most of the disorders that they said that about were biological. I think it had a lot to do with blaming someone who was powerless. Mothers didn't have the clout to say "no, not my fault" so as far as the medical establishment was concerned, the problem was solved. Also, if you blame the mother (or the parents more generally) for a child's disability, it's a fantastic silencing technique. "You made your child this way, stop complaining, and asking for help or services." I saw that a lot growing up.
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branchandroot
no subject
Date: 2012-09-06 12:35 am (UTC)I've seen this too, more based on the way he gave her a doll (which was truly clueless, admittedly, and I see it as a sign that he hadn't seen her for a while (600 day siege, plus travel and set up = about two years) and relied on a wrong-headed "all girls like dolls, right?" mildly sexist, true, but not evidence of some kind of underlying hatred of women. As for why he didn't reach out to her, how do we know he didn't? I mean, before we came home, we heard her mocking him and calling him a failure, and how do we know he didn't try and she didn't rebuff him, right when he was at his lowest, after the death of his son? It would be much more in character for her than for her to accept any overture he made.
I've seen remarks about how Zuko was a bad brother who wasn't nice to her.
Oh yes, this must be it. We see her being frighteningly sadistic to him, he must have made her that way. *pats idiots on the head*
I've even seen a comment or two about how part of Azula's problems were that Mai and Ty Lee weren't real friends.
I saw a fandom secrets post to that effect once, and almost threw up, and I don't mean that figuratively in the least. It was just a little too close to what I said to myself in my darkest moments. My first stalker and I started out as "best friends" until I tried to assert my independence. Then she assaulted me, and instead of knuckling under like I was supposed to, I tried to get away. I was the first victim of hers to try to escape before she was done with me, which was why she became obsessed. if I had just "been a good friend" and waited it out, I told myself, she wouldn't have gone "crazy" on me. It's a lie. Azula terrorized her friends, and they had the right to leave her, and leaving someone like that, especially with the power she wields, takes tremendous courage. Maybe their leaving tipped her over the edge, but the reason for that was that she miscalculated, not that she lost people she cared about.
(I'm not sure why I'm arguing this with you, since we both agree, Maybe I'm hoping an Azula apologist with somehow miraculously make it down this far on this thread? Oh yeah, Ty Zula. I want to have somewhere to link people to next time some idiot tells me I'm a homophobe because I won't read or write Ty Zula. The fact that I'm openly bisexual doesn't deter those comments, strangely.)
What interests me about those disorders being blamed on the mother was that they caught women in a bind they promised "If you do everything right, your child won't have problems!" but since one disorder was supposedly caused by cold and distant mothers, and another by overly affectionate ones, one by being too pushy, one by being to lenient, etc. women couldn't ever just say "If I do this, we'll be fine." That was aside from the fact that most of the disorders that they said that about were biological. I think it had a lot to do with blaming someone who was powerless. Mothers didn't have the clout to say "no, not my fault" so as far as the medical establishment was concerned, the problem was solved. Also, if you blame the mother (or the parents more generally) for a child's disability, it's a fantastic silencing technique. "You made your child this way, stop complaining, and asking for help or services." I saw that a lot growing up.