In response to the gentiles posting about the humanity of Hitler and the Nazis on Yom Hashoah

[attackfish]

If we’re going to be humanizing Hitler and the Nazis, okay, let’s do that. Let’s talk about how they had friends, and families, and flirted, and didn’t stop doing all the things humans do just because they started becoming monsters. Okay, that’s nice. Let’s talk about how when it was all over, they managed to put all that death and murder, and hate, and cruelty back in a box and keep doing all those nice human things. Let’s talk about how many of them were nice to their kids and loved their families. Let’s talk about how entire nations grew up telling themselves: “not my parents. Yes my dad was a member of the party, but he didn’t know. My mom worked for a company that used slave labor, but she didn’t know. Not my aunt, not my uncle, not the people who I love and love me. They didn’t know.” Let’s talk about how “no one” knew. Let’s talk about how that is absolute bullshit. Let’s talk about the lies that people have been telling themselves for thousands of years, that they are still telling themselves, that made this possible, about the greedy parasitic Jew, and the thieving, cheating dirty G*psy. Let’s talk about how at the start of WWII, more Americans were worried about how much power Jews had than how much power Hitler had, while Jews didn’t even have the power to keep themselves alive. Let’s talk about how antisemitism and anti-Romani racism are alive and well in Europe and the Americas today. Let’s talk about how maybe, just maybe you should look at your mother’s favorite great uncle, and your grandmother who made you cookies, and your friends’ grandparents and the way they look so human, and ask yourself: “Did they really not know?”

And maybe then we can talk about all those dead human beings they “didn’t know” about.

 

Comments

[attackfish.livejournal.com]

The "Jews (or any marginalized people) are ours when they succeed, or are moral, but when they do something wrong, they're not, they're just Jews" is really really common. in 1922, Einstein said something to that effect, "If my theory of relativity is proven successful, Germany will claim me as a German and France will declare that I am a citizen of the world. Should my theory prove untrue, France will say that I am a German and Germany will declare that I am a Jew."

I can't really claim America is any better in the fairy tales department. Look at what we say about Manifest Destiny and Slavery. The myths the powerful tell to make it look like they are always right and always righteous I think are a commonality across all people and all times.

As for anti Rromani racism, the problem is that poverty and lack of education is itself caused by and a form of structural racism. You can see the same thing in the US with anti-black racism and racism against Latin@s. And in Europe, Rromani people often have to choose between getting an education, if its even open to them in different countries, and leaving parts of their culture behind to assimilate enough to be accepted, or keeping their culture and family, but remaining in poverty. Unfortunately fixing racism is about remaking institutions and shaping white attitudes, not Rromani ones. No one can fix the racism against their own group. But if white leaders aren't listening to what the Rromani community says it needs then they're not going to get anywhere.

[sheenianni.livejournal.com]

Well I wouldn't go that far - that the problem is only in the institutions and "white attitudes". Even the more educated Romani people themselves admit that the problem is on both sides. As long as the majority of Romani remain apathetic with the excuse of the society being "racist" anyway, then there is only so much you can do.

Not that the system isn't flawed.

A part of this tragedy is how early the segregation starts. I just read a statistic today that Romani children who attend kindergarten for two or more years are 30 % more likely to get a job than kids who attend for a year or less. Unfortunately, sending your kids to kindergarten is not a priority for many Romani people - a) because the majority will always be white, that with only 3% Romani living in the country, so you're essentially sending your child into a potentially "unfriendly" environment, and b) because kindergarten costs money - not much, it's perfectly affordable if you have a job, but if both parents are on social support, then it can be a problem.

So then you have kids who start primary school, but they're incapable of even the simplest things - they can't tie their shoelaces, they barely speak the language, they don't know numbers and can't read the basic letters, some don't even know the basic hygiene, some are disruptive of the lessons just to stick it up to the establishment. And if you have one kid like that in your class, then you can work with him, but if there is more of them, it becomes a problem. So if you have a class of thirty kids with four Romani children from socially poor background, they might fall behind pretty fast. And then they get send to "special schools" for kids with light mental disabilities, which effectively destroys their chances for a high school education and they're pretty much screwed for the rest of their lives. (This is by the way one of the "wonderful" legacies of communism - but to explain how that ideology screwed up this country would be a long tirade. Gah.)

So this is obviously not okay, and there has been a lot of debate about the "special schools". Over the past ten years, the amount of children sent there has dropped by 40%, so we are getting somewhere... slowly. Also the number of university students have rised - according to "Romea", which is the closest thing to an official Romani organization in Czechia, the number of Romani university students have gone from two(!) to over three hundred during the past few years (which is still only 0.1 % of all the Romani people in Czechia...). There have been government programs created just for this; special scholarships for Romani students which have met with partial success. Also most Czech universities are free (you only pay for your schoolbooks), so that should make it easier for people from poor background to get education... but it's still easier said and done, and if your parents don't have a certain level of education, you're that less likely to obtain it yourself, no matter if you're white or Romani.

The biggest issue though is the poverty.

Of course everyone gets a social support, but there is a frightening percent of people who are in debts that they have no way of paying... they owe money to the mafia, they rent flats from loan sharks (who are often Romani themselves) and barely scrape to get by. This of course leads to the very high crime rate between Romani people – if they can’t get a job due to the lack of even the most basic education, they understandably turn to less legal means; theft, robbery, prostitution. There have been some new laws passed that should make it that harder for the loan-sharks to extort people like this, but again it will take time.

[sheenianni.livejournal.com]

There have been some "integration programs" in the past (e.g. the stipends for Romani students etc.), but they had only had limited success. At last, the Ministry of Social security and Romea agreed to work together, and they’re somewhat hopeful this latest program might really make a difference (the anti-loan shark laws are said to be the one of the crucial points).

Still, with 300,000 Romani living in a ten million country, you can’t pull them all out of poverty by some magical law – they have to make their own effort too.

Which is where education comes up again – if you want a better future for your kid, you really need to send him(her) to school, and before you send him to the primary school, it’s up to the parents to make sure the kid knows the basics. Colors, Czech language, counting to ten; getting dressed by himself, maybe a bit of the alphabet. And if the kid doesn’t know this stuff, then you can’t come accusing the teacher of racism – you come to them politely and work with them to get the kid back on track.

The Romani have to meet us somewhere. There is some prejudice and that sucks, but they have to make an effort too and not just decide that they’re screwed either way. And what really doesn’t help is when some groups cry “racism” whenever things don’t go their way.

The “us” and “them” mentality is a big issue, but in this case it’s more than reciprocated from the Romani’s side.

There is some progress… in some of the cities with bad ghettos, small groups of Romani have come forward to work as intermediates between the Romani and the police, acting as a sort of civil guard. Romea is the most visible Romani group when it comes to interactions with the majority, but other, smaller organizations are also beginning to form. We still don’t have many public Romani role models (there was the guy who won the “Superstar” singing contest, and the most famous Czech singer is supposedly half-Romani… and that’s it, I think), but hopefully that will change… just yesterday, the newspaper posted an article about a policeman in Britain with Czech Romani origins who is being awarded the Order of the British Empire for his work with the immigrants. So maybe we are actually making progress… maybe all we need is continue trying to work together and give it time.